=========================================================================== BBS: VICTORIA ONLINE BBS Date: 06-03-93 (00:47) Number: 4135 From: LESTER GARRETT Refer#: NONE To: ALL Recvd: NO Subj: War On Drugs -- 1 of 2 Conf: (267) S-PoliPhil --------------------------------------------------------------------------- ** NOTE: THIS MESSAGE IS A CROSS-POST FROM FIDONET ** 1/2 * The original was written by MIKE REDDING in the LAW Echo * * It was dated 05-26-93 and addressed to JOHN BELLWIN * ------------------------------------------------------------------- | Date: 05-26-93 (22:34) Number: 3336 ðþ Ursa Major þð | | To: JOHN BELLWIN Refer#: NONE | | From: MIKE REDDING Read: YES | | Subj: Re: Abuses of drug seizu Conf: (490) LEGAL___FN | | | | JB> . . .Also,search warrants do not allow the seizure of | | JB> funds unless evidence exists that those funds have | | JB> been used in the commission of a crime. | | | | Evidence that the funds are used in the commission of a | | crime are not necessary for the seizure of property. Merely | | "probable cause" is required. The probable cause can be that | | the money is the profits of drug selling, or is going to be | | used for drug buying. It doesn't take much for probable | | cause to be met as I will illustrate further on down. | | | | JB> Surely you realize that Bill of Rights' questions are | | JB> not so simple as you make it seem. | | | | JB> Cash cannot be seized under state and federal law | | JB> without evidence that the cash is being used in | | JB> connection with a crime. In your hypothetical you | | JB> state that the money can be seized as "probable drug | | JB> money" however you do not provide the evidence which | | JB> leads to that conclusion. | | | | The case is not hypothetical. It happened. 60 minutes and | | the Pittsburgh Press did a story about a black nurseryman | | who was going via plane to buy supplies for his business. | | This is from the Pittsburgh Press, Sunday, August 11, 1991: | | | | Willie Jones, a second-generation nursery man in | | his family's Nashville business, bundles up money | | from last year's profits and heads off to buy flowers | | and shrubs in Houston. He makes this trip twice a year | | using cash, which the small growers prefer. But this | | time, as he waits at the American Airlines gate in | | Nashville Metro Airport, he's flanked by two police | | officers who escort him to a small office, search him, | | and seize the $9600 he's carrying. A ticket agent had | | alerted the officers that a large black man had paid | | for his ticket in bills, unusual these days. Because | | of the cash, and the fact that he fit a "profile" of | | what drug dealers supposedly look like, they believed | | he was buying or selling drugs. He's free to go, he's | | told. But they keep his money -- his livelyhood -- | | and give him a receipt in its place. No evidence of | | wrongdoing was ever produced. No charges were ever filed. | | As far anyone knows, Willie Jones neither uses drugs, | | nor buys or sells them. He is a gardening contractor | | who bought an airplane ticket. Who lost his hard-earned | | money to the cops. And can't get it back. | | | | In the 60 minutes interview with Willie, he said he thought | | he was going to be arrested for a crime, and when he asked, | | they said they couldn't arrest him because he didn't break | | any law. They told him he would have to go to court to get | | the money back. Willie found out later that wasn't easy. | | The DA demanded Willie pay a 10% bond on the seized money, | | equaling $960, merely to have the right to contest the | | seizure in court. Willie didn't have the money to pay the | | bond, so he asked the DA to waive the bond, but he refused. | | 60 minutes continued that even if Willie did have the money | | to pay the required bond, he would have to prove in court | | that he was totally innocent of any crime. The burden of | | proof is upon the person from whom the seizure is made to | | show total innocence, not on the Government to prove wrong- | | doing. The person must prove a negative, that he didn't do | | something. | ------------------------------------------------------------------- - concluded in next message - --- þ EZ 1.39 #136 þ Laissez Nous Faire! Los Angeles, CA þ RoseMail 2.10á: SmartNet #4001, DPS, Pcfic Palsds, CA (310)459-6053 =========================================================================== BBS: VICTORIA ONLINE BBS Date: 06-03-93 (00:47) Number: 4136 From: LESTER GARRETT Refer#: NONE To: ALL Recvd: NO Subj: War On Drugs -- 2 of 2 Conf: (267) S-PoliPhil --------------------------------------------------------------------------- ** NOTE: THIS MESSAGE IS A CROSS-POST FROM FIDONET ** 2/2 * The original was written by MIKE REDDING in the LAW Echo * * It was dated 05-26-93 and addressed to JOHN BELLWIN * - concluded from previous message - ------------------------------------------------------------------- | JB> - I defy you to come up with a case (not something | | JB> from a newspaper) where the person said "no" and the | | JB> person did not consent to a search and the law | | JB> enforcement agent searched anyway without having more | | JB> evidence than a large amount of money to base his | | JB> suspicions on. | | | | I didn't say the man refused the search. Because he had | | nothing to hide, he allowed the requested search. | | | | 60 minutes went further. They had a black undercover | | reporter pose as a traveler in the Nashville airport, pay | | for his ticket to Houston in cash, and wait as the video | | cameras recorded. 15 minutes later, the 2 very same cops | | who took Willie's money confronted the undercover | | reporter. The ticket agent had tipped them off about | | paying in cash for the ticket. Ticket agents are promised | | bounties for any cash they help authorities seize. The | | microphones picked up one policeman asking the reporter | | if he was carrying any large amounts of cash on him. The | | reporter answered that it depended on what a large amount | | was. The policeman answered that, to him, a large amount | | was anything over $1000. They pressured the reporter to | | allow them to search him. When they found his 60 Minutes | | ID they backed off, knowing they had been caught on tape. | | | | Here's another excerpt from the Pittsburgh Press: | | | | That same day, in Hawaii, federal drug agents arrive at | | the Maui house of retirees Joseph and Frances Lopes and | | claim it for the U.S. Government. | | | | For 49 years, Lopes worked on a sugar plantation, living | | in its camp housing before buying a modest home for him- | | self, his wife, and their adult, mentally disturbed son, | | Thomas. For a while, Thomas grew marijuana in the back | | yard -- and threatened to kill himself everytime his | | parents tried to cut it down. In 1987, the police | | caught Thomas, then 20. He pleaded guilty, got probation | | for his first offense and was ordered to see a | | psychologist once a week. He has, and never has again | | grown dope or been arrested. The family thought this | | episode was behind them. | | | | But earlier this year, a detective scouring old arrest | | records for forfeiture opportunities realized the Lopes' | | house could be taken away because they had admitted they | | knew about the marajuana. The police department stands | | to make a bundle. If the house is sold, the police get | | the proceeds. | | | | Jones and the Lopes family are among the thousands of | | Americans each year victimized by the federal seizure | | law -- a law meant to curb drugs by causing financial | | hardship on dealers. | | | | You might think it is simplistic to think of this as | | contrary to the Bill of Rights, but whenever the | | presumption of innocence is overlooked, even innocence | | itself regarded as irrelevant, and when the burden of | | proof is placed upon the accused to prove innocence, it | | doesn't take much abuse to equal too much abuse. | | | | ... RICO means never having to say Miranda! | | ___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.12 | | | | --- Maximus/2 2.01wb | | * Origin: Proximate Cause (1:124/3108) | ------------------------------------------------------------------- END TRANS Lô õG --- þ EZ 1.39 #136 þ Laissez Nous Faire! Los Angeles, CA þ RoseMail 2.10á: SmartNet #4001, DPS, Pcfic Palsds, CA (310)459-6053